not-invented-here:

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forgottenhsfacts:

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There was an alternate timeline in which Terezi and Karkat died within Karkat’s hive.

==> Submitted by artisticcaste

To add to this forgotten fact, this is the timeline where Karkat didn’t run the doomsday program so the trolls never played the game and it is also the timeline that powered Doc Scratch.  Gamzee also kills all of his friends in this timeline. In fact, we see Gamzee about to beat a crying Karkat to death in the [S] All: Behold glory of Zillyhoo flash which is foreshadowing of this scene.

It is also why I don’t buy into the thought that Gamzee is a “sweet innocent baby” as the fandom likes to portray him. Here we have no stressful forces on him that are often used to excuse his actions. No Dave to send him ICP videos, no running out of his “drug” and his friends were all alive. Nobody to blame for his actions and he still “sobered up” and murdered everyone, except Aradia. I think he’s just supposed to be evil there aren’t many other ways to interpret behavior like this. If that wasn’t enough to convince you essentially raises Satan. He’s both funny and scary and a pretty good villain.

These are indeed some often forgotten facts, but I can’t quite agree with this commentary!

First. a small detail but yet worth correcting: Fandom does not like to portray Gamzee as “sweet innocent baby”: Most people lately avoid to portray Gamzee altogether (and I can’t blame them) and lots of the rest seems to see him as scary spooky-bad abuser of girls with no redeeming qualities.
I really should know because I am one of those fans who are interested in Gamzee not just as “but I only like him as a villain, don’t worry!!!!” and if that was a popular stance to have to have in fandom about Gamzee “But-Seriously-Fuck-This-Guy” Makara, I’d have noticed, I’m sure!

Secondly, the content itself:
Yes, in an alternate timeline Gamzee did murder all of his friend without going off sopor! Which is a hint that “sobering up” (or “going off his meds/drugs”) was not what caused Gamzee to kill off his friends.
Neither is it Dave’s fault! 

But the ICP video Dave sent Gamzee had previously been linked to Dave by the Condesce (Betty Crocker), and why do you think she did that? Doc Scratch contacted Gamzee and gave him orders (during Cascade Gamzee told DS that he had accomplished what he had been asked to do) and why would he do that? Lil’Cal spoke to Gamzee and told him to kill his friends and why do you think that was? 

What is happening here is that Doc Scratch, the Condesce and the whole posse surrounding LE had an investment in Gamzee’s actions during the Murderstucks (in both universes, I presume), which is why they helped move things along, since they benefit from his actions. (In the doomed timeline Gamzee’s actions directly lead to the creation of Doc Scratch, so….).

This does NOT mean that it’s “not Gamzee’s fault” or anything of the like, and is not meant as statement on Gamzee’s morality; I’m not really interested in answering that question at this point, neither am I in determining how much he ever was in control of his agenda, yet. 

All I’m saying is that if you’re looking for an universal constant that would explain why Gamzee killed his friends in other alternate universes, too, even if “sopor withdrawal” wasn’t an issue, here it is!

I mean there are essentially two possibilities here
1) “it’s because he’s innately evil and will murder in all universes because of What He Is (your stance?? apparently)
2) “it’s because in that other timeline LE’s posse had a similar investment and helped move things along, like they did in our timeline”

Seems to me that “Innate Evil” is really not the kind of trope usually played straight in Homestuck (even with Caliborn/LE it’s played with!).

It’s also, I find, a boring and sad way to look at the fate of a character like Gamzee Makara. I mean is “Young useless lonely religious drug addict speaking hardly intelligible slang and coming from a sad home situation inevitably turns Evil because that’s Who He Was All Along” (and isn’t that scary and funny and what a good villain) really a story we’d want to read? I wouldn’t, personally. I am interested in manipulation, how to create loyal minions and what happens when powerful third parties get involved in the lives of the easily impressionable, though, that I like.