scrawlers:

isaackuo:

scrawlers:

I think what gets me the most about the Lance scene at the beginning of 2x8 is when people side with Lance—when they act like it’s a great example of leadership from him because he “knew his teammates” and “was right” about why Shiro shouldn’t have taken Keith, when a.) he wasn’t being genuine in his objection, and b.) he wasn’t right, because his argument was that Keith’s temper would ruin the mission because he’d kill everyone, and that’s not at all what happened.

I mean, just so we’re all clear on what was said:

LANCE: “So, uh … any thoughts on who’s going to join you on this little mission? I’m thinkin’ things might get a little hot, so you’re gonna want someone who can stay cool.”

SHIRO: “You’re right. Keith, you’re coming with me.”

LANCE: “Wha—?! Keith’s a hothead! He’s probably gonna shoot first and ask questions later! And they’re not gonna be able to answer his questions because they’ll be dead!”

SHIRO: “We haven’t yet severed Zarkon’s link with the Black Lion, so it has to stay here. And the Red Lion can withstand the heat from that sun, so yes, it’ll be Keith.”

In the first bit, Lance is smirking in a self-assured way. He’s making a bit of a joke with his “it might get hot, so you’ll want someone who can stay cool” bit, playing on the fact that the Blue Lion has ice powers. However, the minute Shiro says that Keith is coming with him, Lance loses it. He screeches about how Keith is a hothead and tries to make Keith out to be some sort of bloodthirsty loose cannon as a way to change Shiro’s mind so that Shiro takes him instead. People try to play this off as Lance knowing what’s best and speaking up for the good of the mission, but the fact that Lance tried to volunteer himself, smirking all the while, right before that disproves that notion. Lance wasn’t speaking out against Keith because he, as a strategic savant, saw what was best for the mission and felt the need to point it out; he spoke out against Keith because he wanted Shiro to take him and was jealous. And furthermore, for all that he rails against Keith for being a hothead in his rant, he’s the one whose temper was so triggered by Shiro deciding to take Keith that he not only started screaming, but also got in Shiro’s face to make sure that Shiro heard every word of it. Shiro is, understandably, completely unimpressed by this:

This is an absolutely terrible way to handle this situation. Even if Lance disagreed with Shiro’s judgment call, there is a way to get that across civilly and respectfully. But of course, this wasn’t really about Lance thinking that Shiro’s call was wrong, it was about Lance throwing a tantrum because Shiro had chosen to take Keith instead of him. Hence, he resorted to screaming and getting in Shiro’s face about it.

And again, I feel the need to emphasize that he was wrong. Not only has Keith never been the type to simply murder people without asking questions (especially in a case like this, given that Keith has been pretty outspoken about wanting to form an alliance with The Blade of Marmora if possible!), but Keith’s temper didn’t cost them the mission. Keith didn’t have an outburst of temper at all; the most he did was get understandably defensive when The Blade of Marmora accused him of stealing his knife (which was a memento from his parents), and refuse to give it up. Prior to that, however, The Blade of Marmora already didn’t want to trust him. Kolivan and the others had already expressed disapproval that Ulaz had given away their location. While it’s true that they felt that Keith had come armed due to him bringing the knife when they specifically said not to bring weapons (even though Keith wasn’t thinking of it as a weapon at the time—he just wanted to ask questions about it), they were already uninterested in forming an alliance with Team Voltron. If anything, Keith’s insistence on doing the Trials in order to learn about his heritage is what opened what otherwise would have been a closed door on an alliance with The Blade of Marmora. His determination—and his acceptance of himself to trigger the knife’s/sword’s awakening—is what won The Blade of Marmora over. Had anyone else gone, the alliance would have been over before it began. Keith saved the mission, he didn’t damn it.

But oh, we want to talk about 2x8!Lance? Let’s remember how he reacted when the Red Lion began attacking the Marmora base:

He’s scared! And I’m not dragging him for this, I think it’s a perfectly understandable and normal reaction for a teenage boy (or anyone, really) to be scared when there’s a very good chance that one (or two) of their friends is dead or dying (which is what the Red Lion attacking implies, especially since we as an audience know that Keith was beat to hell and was pretty much dying at that point). But I will say that he did not act like a leader in that situation. Lance heard that the Red Lion was attacking, heard the implication in what Hunk said, and immediately looked to the leader for reassurance. You can see in his expression that he’s terrified. You can hear in his voice that he’s very, very afraid in the tiny way he says, “Allura?” He looks to her for reassurance and guidance and he gets it, because—as a leader should—Allura takes charge, reminds everyone that they need to stay focused, and asks Coran how soon they can get into the base. It’s not that Allura doesn’t care about Shiro and Keith—of course she does—but she is the leader of that team, she’s the one in charge at present, and she knows that if she loses her cool, so will the rest of them. She may not be the Black Paladin, but Allura functions as a leader of Voltron in her own right. She is, after all, the princess (queen, tbh, not that Alfor is dead and she was next in line for the throne). She’s the commander of the Castle of Lions. It is her job to be mission control in a sense and that’s what she’s doing. She can’t afford to lose her head—she has to remain focused, and she has to keep the rest of the team focused as well. Giving into her fear isn’t an option for her like it is for, say, Lance, who demonstrates pretty well in this scene that when he hears that one of his teammates (or both of them—these guys have no way of knowing that Shiro is okay) is in life-threatening danger, he’s stricken by panic and looks to someone else for guidance and reassurance.

And he remains that way throughout the rest of the scene:

Compare Lance to the others. Hunk, Pidge, and Allura are all looking straight ahead. Lance, as we can tell by comparing this close-up to the other shots, is still looking at Allura. While Pidge and Allura look determined (and Hunk is … smiling? … well, he’s not afraid at least), Lance still looks afraid. And again, I’m not dragging him, I think it’s reasonable to be afraid in this situation, but I am saying that in comparison to the others, who no doubt care about Shiro and Keith but have the capability to stay focused and determined despite their fear that two of their friends might be dead or dying, it says something that Lance is still looking to someone else for guidance and looks as if this fear is debilitating to / distracting him.

So, Lance stans want the Lance of Marmora, do they? Because I really don’t think they do. Because I think that if they really actually looked and paid attention to the Lance that we saw in 2x8 “The Blade of Marmora,” they would see that he’s not at all the logical, leadership savant they’ve made him out to be in fanon. That’s not to say that Lance doesn’t have any good qualities, of course, and that he’s useless, because of course he isn’t—but he also doesn’t demonstrate in this episode that he would be a fantastic, amazing leader, and trying to use this episode as an argument for why he should be the Black Paladin (or whatever else) is completely ludicrous, because it directly contradicts that idea by showing how, in a time of crisis and uncertainty, Lance specifically looks to someone else to lead. And he doesn’t do this because he thinks he can’t, but rather, because he’s stricken by fear, and his natural instinct is to look to someone else for guidance and reassurance.

That’s Lance. Not whatever his stans have made him out to be.

Okay, but hold on - Keith’s determination did NOT win over the Blade of Marmora. It was the number one thing that made them unwilling to accept Keith and Shiro. And Shiro almost spoiled things also by preferring to leave rather than try and get either Keith or the BoM to give in.

What won over the BoM was Keith himself deciding to give in. That’s not a minor point, it’s actually a major point of character growth and character development for Keith. Keith gave in, sacrificing his own personal need for the greater good.

The illusion shows what Keith wants most. What was that? Shiro, yes, for obvious reasons. But also his past - his father (maybe) and his mother (maybe). That should give you some idea of how precious to him his only clue to his past must be.

So no, this had nothing to do with Keith accepting himself. It had everything to do with Keith letting go for the greater good.

As for Lance criticism - believe it or not, Lance is demonstrating himself to be better at those things than the others on the team. Probably due to experience being part of a big family, I’d guess. Standing up for yourself and trying to make a case is important, and Lance is, incredibly, better at this than the others even if he is not very good at it. Hunk is too used to waiting his turn so when he finally does try to insist on something he gets shot down. Keith is a loner who at least knows he’s no good at making an argument so he just walks off without wasting everyone’s time with trying to formulate any sort of explanation at all. Pidge just insists she’s going and that no one can stop him (at this time Keith actually does try to browbeat Pidge into staying, but he gets shot down by Shiro).

So here’s the thing - Lance at least tries and he keeps trying. He’s not good at making a case, but if he keeps practicing he’ll get better at it.

And Lance looking at Allura? He’s being a team player the way Keith isn’t. He wants to go out and help his friends. But he’s not going to act alone. He’s the one who doesn’t want to sneak out on the town by himself, he has to drag his buddy Hunk along. He looks to Shiro for the senior officer’s orders. He respects the chain of command, and when he disagrees with it he follows the chain of command. Is he some uber-perfect paragon of leadership? No, that’s nonsense. But he’s a good team player. He wants to help his friends, but he respects that Allura’s calling the shots. He’s starting at her because what matters is when she orders them to go out. He has tried to make his case, and he’s waiting for the go ahead.

I’m going to have to respectfully point out that you either misunderstood my post, are incorrectly remembering both 2x08 as well as many other episodes in the series (and especially Keith’s character), or both. But in order to do so, I’m going to take apart your response piece by piece to show exactly what it is I disagree with, as well as provide counter-evidence via screenshots to show precisely why I disagree with it.

keiths-salt:

Sh/iro explained why he’s taking K/eith with him

but apparently the L/ance of Mar/mora seems… more appealing than a K/eith character arc to some people

“Okay, but hold on - Keith’s determination did NOT win over the Blade of Marmora. It was the number one thing that made them unwilling to accept Keith and Shiro.”

This is incorrect. The Blade of Marmora did not trust nor accept Keith and Shiro from the very start, and openly disapproved of Ulaz’s decision to divulge the location of the base.

The Blade of Marmora is, understandably, extremely cautious. While Ulaz believed in Team Voltron’s ability to combat Zarkon and the Galra Empire, Kolivan and the others made it pretty apparent from the start that they were not very interested in forming an alliance. The fact that Kolivan openly disparages Ulaz and how his foolishness resulted in his death makes that more than apparent, which is why Shiro demands to know whether or not they are even welcome there. Keith’s determination to go through with the trials had nothing at all to do with The Blade of Marmora’s distrust or unwillingness to accept Shiro and Keith (and the rest of Team Voltron) as potential allies. They held that mistrust from the start.

Now, you could argue that Kolivan’s disparaging comments about Ulaz divulging the location of the base (against orders) was a direct result of Keith bringing the knife with him, given that Kolivan does point out the fact that Keith is armed in the next line:

You could further argue that Keith’s insistence on bringing the knife to get answers, despite being told to come unarmed, is the display of determination that turned The Blade of Marmora against them, given that his insistence on getting answers about his past led to him ignoring the order to come unarmed. However, there are several points against this idea:

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